Steve Daily’s interview with Steven Hassan regarding the SDA Church comes during a time of uncertainty and distrust for the church in North America

Mind you, I mean distrust from the church from within the church. More specifically the North American Division and to be even more specific, American Adventists. Church members distrustful of church leadership just for the sake of being distrustful.

 

It would be disingenuous and hypocritical of me to have recapped Dr. Steven Hassan’s interviews with ex-members of the Mormon Church and Jehovah’s Witnesses but not talk about his interview with Professor Steve Daily, who is a former Seventh Day Adventist pastor.

Here is the full interview. Before you listen, I want to say a few things to current Adventists and especially those who may know about Adventism via various online ministries such as It Is Written and Amazing Facts. You will hear Professor Daily say some things about Ellen G. White, the church’s early years and a few other things that you may be very upsetting. Efforts by some to discredit Ellen G. White is nothing new and more so by prominent ex-members such as Professor Daily. Dozens of books critical of Ellen G. White or questioning the validity of her writings have been written over the last 150 years. Professor Daily is not the first and certainly will not be the last. Like all denominations and religious movements, the SDA Church highlights the positive aspects of its history and is largely silent about the not so flattering details. That doesn’t mean the SDA Church hasn’t made some questionable or downright foolish decisions past and present.

On that note. I just remembered something I noticed on Hope TV–the SDA Church’s official network–around the same time Profesor Daily said he left the church in 2011. Hope TV started running PSAs explaining you can be an Adventist and still pursue your own passions and personal goals. It felt pretty sudden at the time to me but knowing where Professor Daily was spiritually around that time, I now know the timing for those PSAs was no coincidence. Professor Daily works at UCLA. He has written 11 books about the SDA Church and Ellen G. White. He has also written 4 dissertations about Adventism and is former Adventist pastor. His credability as a historian and a theologian goes back decades–he was a pastor for almost 25 years–and I’m not going to question or critique that.

What I do take issue with is how he chose to use the first third of the hour he had with Dr. Hassan. I looked up interviews he’s done elsewhere and read excerpts online. He spent a fairly large amount of the first third of the hour basically making the case to listeners Ellen G. White was a fraud and the church was founded based on extreme interpretations of scripture. I know his audience via that podcast interview was the general public but it’s like I said about the Present Truth movement for the last few years: You need to be 100% certain that you know what you’re talking about. More so when we’re talking about a church with over 20 Million members worldwide. The SDA Church is the fastest-growing protestant denomination in the world right now. Second only to the Catholic Church across all Christianity.

I get Professor Daily trying not come across as too sympathetic after he spoke about his time as an Adventist but it’s obvious he still has a lot of personal connections with his former church. He did touch on a few things I have talked about on this blog before. One is the American church’s unhealthy obsession with prophecy and end time events that’s got Adventists in other parts of the world worried. Most older American Adventists were heavily influenced by Jan Marcusen’s book The National Sunday Law which was written in the early 1980s. I talked about it a few times but Marcusen made several predictions that ended up not happening, the biggest one being crime would double in the U.S. every year through the 1990s. That actually never happened.

A real good sign a church is in decline is a combination of slow growth and steady declining membership. The SDA Church in North America has been experiencing both for the last 25 years now. This is to say nothing of the Present Truth movement and other more fundamentalist factions pulling people in different directions. It would be fair to say the church is very vulnerable right now. A combination of things have led to this but at the end of the day, this happened on Pastor Ted C. Wilson’s watch. For those who might not know who he is, Pastor Wilson is the President of the SDA Church. He has held that position since 2010.

At this point, I think it’s time for a change in leadership. There are far too many issues that need to be addressed and are not even being acknowledged. Issue number one is the church’s hyperfocus on prophecy and last day events. This is what has been driving mostly young people out of and away from the church as soon as they’re of age to leave home over the last 25 years. The SDA Church in North America has been bleeding out members for far longer but the bleeding’s been getting worse over the last 25 years. It’s much worse than most churches are willing to admit mostly because of denominational exceptionalism. No church is immune though.

Most ex-Adventists do continue to practice some of their former beliefs including keeping the Sabbath. Some do return to the church later in life. Some join a Sunday church for fellowship. Some find an independent SDA church not funded by the General Conference. More recently–as has been the case for me–some attend church virtually via Amazing Facts or other online ministries. I do still believe in Adventism myself but I also believe we have a moral responsability and a Biblical mandate to not just share what we know with others but be willing to learn and adopt truths others have. Denominational Exceptionalism is going to be the SDA Church’s downfall and it will likely happen sooner than later.

I mentioned this a few times before but the SDA Church in North America has fractured over the last 20 years. It’s not a secret among most Adventists either though some fractures became much more noticable than others in recent years. Meanwhile, Pastor Wilson is still largely silent on the matter. He did acknowledge there is turmoil and uncertainty during his appearance at Amazing Facts last month but decided not to go into detail. I’m speculating when I say this but I do think Pastor Wilson has largely accepted the reality the distrust of many current and former Adventists in the U.S. toward the General Conference is why nothing they say will matter to too many right now.

Some of the more fundamentalist factions I eluded to earlier have been gaining momentum and influence in recent years. Those voices are ultimately why Professor Daily chose now to do this intervew with Steve Hassan. One thing I have no problem saying is more than any other denomination, Adventists take pride in “having the truth” about prophecy and the Sabbath in particular. The problem is a lot has been and is being sacrificed just so Adventists can feel a sense of pride in saying “we’re special” or “We’re a peculiar people”. Amazing Facts has been trying to break through in its own way but like Professor Daily said, the more fundamentalist Adventists will dig in no matter what.

This is also why change needs to happen. Not just from the top down but in some doctrine too. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome. Until the church is willing to acknowledge there is a problem, the church breaking up is just a matter of time. The church has been indirectly using current events, Ellen G. White’s writings and Pope Francis’ growing popularity in the secular world to keep Adventists engaged or at least make them feel like they are privy to special information or knowledge.

On that note. One bit of truth about Ellen G. White’s writings on health is Adventists give her far too much credit. She definitely wasn’t the first to speak about proper diet, exercise and rest or about the negative effects smoking and alcohol have in the body. The fact that she is constantly referenced by many Adventists as a pioneer of health speaks to the fact most honestly don’t know others spoke out about these things long before her. People believe what they want to believe at the end of the day. That and when it’s drilled into you “She received revealations from God about these and other things”, naturally you have little reason to consider other sources. That a fatal flaw in Adventism and is also why other theologians of other denominations have the impression “true” Adventists worship Ellen G. White. Her writings are often held up or referenced as if they’re on the same level as the Bible which she herself warned against ironically.

This disconnect is also why new member turnover has been steadily growing in recent decades. People come into the church or visit for Bible truth. Ok great. After they become baptized members it’s quickly hammered into them the importance of reading Ellen G. White’s writings especially The Great Controversy (recently renamed The Great Hope). This causes a disconnect as a growing number of those new church members–most of whom converted from another Christian denomination–think to themselves “Why are we studying Ellen G. White instead of the Bible? This wasn’t what I signed up for”, leave and either go back to the church they came from or leave the faith completely.

As things stand now, the SDA Church in North America needs to undergo reform ASAP. A split will happen no matter what and people need to be prepared for that. I mean fractures within individual churches. People are going to start focusing on following what they’re most passionate about and push everything else aside. The proverbial dam is breaking before our eyes. The majority of Adventists just don’t realize it yet and those who do are keeping their mouths shut.

What I am most worried about is what happens immediately after that and unfortunately the most likely outcomes are not good:

• Isolated Communities: Warning bells are being sounded by some in response to these calls by some for Adventists to move away from cities and go to rural areas. Professor Daily is just one of many. Even Amazing Facts has started talking about it because of how many people are heeding the call by some move as far away from cities as possible. The Pandemic and the conflict in Ukraine came at the right time for those who have been calling for Adventists to “come out of Babylon lest you share in its destruction” for years to say the least. They use those events to make the case for people to move to the middle of nowhere and start or join an isolated community. Some point to the Amish as “being ahead of the curb” due to the fact the Amish have lived the same way for almost 400 years and have shunned modern conveniences such as cars, eletricity and the internet.
• Information Silos: This is already underway as we speak in tandem with the political discourse going on in America. Much of what’s going on is Cognitive Dissonance: People don’t want hear or accept anything counter to what they want to believe even when they know what they want to believe is illogical or faulty. It’s human nature to not want to be wrong and protect the ego. That’s one thing and most people do accept the truth eventually. The problem is when people take things to unhealthy extremes. That’s what is going on right now with the anti-vaccine, anti-science and anti-government rhetoric that’s metasticized in churches in America across all denominations. People are being indoctrinated to gradually be fearful and suspicious of “other” and Adventists are no exception.
• Abuse Within The Family: This is far more widespread than most are willing to admit with good reason. I want to be VERY careful with what I say next but I do want to make it clear most Adventists in North America are kind, loving people to not just the people around them but their families. Like other denominations, corporal punishment or spanking is condoned among Adventists. Not openly promoted or encouraged obviously but is condoned. More so among people of color and those who are low income. Honestly, I am now convinced many Christians have decided to use Proverbs 13:24 as justification for child abuse more often than not. Many Adventist families also use the 5th commandment (“Honor your father and mother…”) to spiritually and emotionally blackmail their children into unquestioning obediance.
• Families Breaking Up: That brings me to Proverbs 22:6 which says you should train your children in the way they should go so that when they are of age, they will not depart from what they were taught. The Catholic Church’s child sex abuse scandal’s been getting a lot of attention but the SDA Church has been losing its young people as soon as they’re of age for decades now. It’s fair to say Adventists are different from other denominations in several regards. Believe it or not, most Adventist kids go through public education like everyone else mostly for economical reasons. In the years leading up to the start of the pandemic there were growing calls from some to homeschool or enroll their kids into Adventist schools over concerns of certain influences including from the LGBTQ+ Community. As kids grow up, they get a better sense of just how different they are even from their peers who go to church on a different day from them. They have to turn down hanging out with friends between Friday and Saturday evening among other things. By the time they’re of age to live on their own, they have had the opportunity to see how non-Adventists and non-Christians live for almost 15 years. They then have to decide if they want to live the way their family lived and wants them to live, live how society wants them to live or try to find a third way. Most go with a combination of the last two though some do return to the fold later in life. Those who do leave the faith typically leave the family first on that note.
• Social Distancing from other Christians: Again, this is happening now as we speak and is being pushed by charismatic Fundamentalists. Fear around the passing of a National Sunday Law and concerns over current events are what are driving people being conditioned for what is basically self-imposed social isolation. It’s “Us vs. Them” more or less and it’s not surprising. Spiritual Blackmail is being used by some to keep family members in line. Scripture is selectively quoted to justify social isolation. “We have the truth”, they tell themselves. Well, Christianity’s been down this road many times before already. Churches are made up of people and the Bible makes it clear people are not perfect. This idea being pushed by some for “perfection” is a fool’s endeavor.
• Deadly Choices: I want to be careful and clear in saying this would not be something church leadership would EVER consider steering people toward. It’s the more fundamentalist voices who have gained influence in Adventist churches that would drive people to make dangerous and deadly decisions that they shouldn’t have to. Some are being conditioned as we speak to allow themselves to die in the name of their faith and for “religious freedom”. We saw this already during the Pandemic. Sadly, thousands of Christians across all denominations took this to heart during the Pandemic in just the U.S. with devastating consequences for themselves AND their families. We literally had charismatic speakers say one after the other “God won’t allow us to die before our time” and within days, they were sicked or dead from COVID-19. God will not be mocked. I could also see a scenario in which there is a natural disaster or conflict and those who refuse to heed warnings to escape end up dying or worse cause rescuers sent to get them to get hurt or killed.
• Child Abuse, Manslaughter or Negligent Homicide: This is the biggest one I am expecting to start happening sooner than later, more so since it will likely involve children who are either under minors (17 and under) or are adult children that have an intellectual disability. Right now there’s a story in the news involving an Idaho mother on trial for killing two of her three children. She and her current husband–of course, both of them were previously married to others–are part of a religious sect that is an offshoot of Mormonism. To be blunt the parents adopted extreme doomsday and endtime beliefs that had a tragic outcome. Based on some of the information that came out during the trial–verdict pending very soon–she believed her two children were possessed by demons and the only way to “save” them was to kill them so she did. This is the kind of tragedy that is unfortunately pretty common in parts of Latin America, South America and the African continent in particular. The only time you hear of this kind of thing happening in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand is when it makes the news. I remember about 12 years ago the Adventist Review covered a story out of California involving Adventist parents whose child died from malnutrition. The parents were trying to feed their child meals based on Ellen G. White’s writings and would not give the child anything else. The child died of starvation. The parents were rightfully charged with Child Abuse and manslaughter. I hope you can now better see where I’m going with this. Imagine it happening on a much larger scale. The political instability in the U.S. as well as the mass shootings and concerns over certain secular influences are driving parents to homeschool their kids in large numbers never before seen in this country. It’s a matter of when, not if some parents will take things too far and cause either serious harm or the death of the child(ren). In their minds, they’re justified because their interpretation of scripture says so. In their minds, the government would be wrong for punishing them for following their religous beliefs.

 

…Mind you, none of these extreme scenarios are Biblical of course. Yet sadly they are all scenarios some Adventists and some members of other denominations are steadily moving toward doing.

An added dimension I eluded to that makes these very possible are the cultural elements of many that reinforce their religious beliefs. For example many Black American, African, Latin American and West Indian or Carribbean families have elements of their cultural traditions and beliefs mixed in with their Christianity. They are basically trying to have it both ways weather it’s intended or not. Their cultural beliefs often slip out subsciously as well. It is a fact in many Black, West Indian or African families corporal punishment or spanking is common or expected to be practiced and not just behind closed doors.

Every now and then a story will make the news involving a parent being arrested and charged with assault and battery on a child, usually while at school or somewhere in public. I know the more hardline conservatives and fundamentalists will always fiercely defend their “right to discipline their child however they want to”–some often giving their child’s school permission to discipline their children in kind–but the data does not lie on the subject of spanking: It causes permanent lasting psychological damage to children. More importantly, you’re actually subconsciously teaching your children it’s ok to use violence against others. This is to say nothing of the fact some parents do take things too far. That’s why teachers and doctors are now Mandated Reporters. They are required by law to report suspected child abuse to law enforcement immediately but I won’t digress further.

Getting back on the main topic. An inconvenient truth is most Adventists in America are being conditioned to be more suseptical to various kinds of Undue Influence from more fundamentalist voices they listen to sometimes daily. It’s quite the irony that to a growing number of Protestant Christians in general, raising legit questions about doctrine is viewed as a sign of a lack of faith or worse. That kind of thinking is not Biblical either and shame on ANYONE who tries to spiritually or emotionally abuse someone who has sincere and genuine questions or concerns about doctrines or teachings.

Things would be a lot less complicated or concerning for the SDA Church if the General Conference pushed “Sola Scriptura” a lot more in just North America. There are Adventists in other parts of the world who do not have these same concerns or problems despite having access to the same resources for the most part. I know this will be a controversial move and is unlikely to happen but something Pastor Wilson could do is hold a press conference via livestream and tell the church as a whole Ellen G. White’s writings are not equal to or above the Bible in as strong a tone as possible. She herself stressed the Bible should have the first and last say so he would have that cover.

The reason I think he should publicly say this is because it is a fact a growing number of Adventists do view Ellen G. White’s writings as equal to and in some cases greater than the Bible. In other words, some Adventists view Ellen G. White’s writings in the same way Mormons view their Book of Mormonism: Fresher and more relevant than the Bible. I don’t know if it will happen in my lifetime but I do think there will come a time when some of even the most devout fans of Ellen G. White’s writings will abandon her books to keep the focus on the Bible. She would want that actually and said as much. She referred to herself as a lesser light for a reason.

All that said. The reason it’s unlikely Pastor Wilson would make such a bold statement is because the more fundamentalist voices will just spin it as evidence or proof Adventists should be distrustful of General Conference because “they want suppress truth and erase our history”. There is a lot of fearmongering around the National Sunday Law among too many Adventists that is being aggressively pushed in the U.S. by more fundamentalist voices. They ramped up their messaging during the Pandemic, many making the case government-imposed measures that were being used to get COVID-19 under control was a test or an elaborate hoax to see how much they can control people (it wasn’t).

This is aside from the fact culturally, most Americans have been conditioned to have a natural distrust of the government at all times. Given the timing, it was the perfect storm. It’s interesting to note it’s in countries where certain personal freedoms are the strongest right now that people are being conditioned to be distrustful and suspicious of anyone who doesn’t think like they do. This isn’t exclusive to Adventists or Christians for that matter of course but Christians are the ones leading those efforts right now.

…All that said, nothing happens before its appointed time.

These same trusted voices urging people to turn on their governments in the name of religious freedom don’t fully understand what they’re actually doing. When the Israelites were in the wilderness, some were complaining so violently they wanted to stone Moses. God had to tell Moses they weren’t rejecting his leadership but His, their God’s. They just didn’t understand or care. When the Israelites listened to the ten spies’ report on Canaan and wanted to return to Egypt, God declared they would have to wander in the wilderness for the next 40 years. Everyone from that first generation that came out of Egypt died off during those 40 years except Caleb and Joshua. Their children, most of whom were born during the 40 years of wandering would live to enter the Promised Land.

Honestly, right now I feel like Christianity is in a state of flux and has been since at least the mid-1950s. We really started seeing the rise of Christianized Cults and modern Christian Fundamentalist Movements in particular during that time. You only really hear about Jim Jones, David Koresh and the Moonies these days but they are three of many. It’s no coincidence these Christian Fundamentalist movements and Christianized Cults are especially active in traditionally Red or Conservative-controlled U.S. states where elected officials are hands off when it comes to anything that appears Christian.

Revealation makes reference to a time yet to come when Church and State in America will become one. It will become the Second Beast as it fits the descriptions mentioned. America is a powerful country without a King or State Religion that speaks through laws and ordinances. Many Theologians have observed more was done during Donald Trump’s presidency to weaken the wall between church and state that any other time in this country’s history. Those efforts were slowed by the Pandemic and largely halted when Joe Biden became president in 2020 but it’s probably a fair expectation the next Republican president–regardless of who it is–could make a push to tear down the wall completely.

I think of Opus Dei, the New Apostalic Reformation, The Family and other Christian Fundmentalist movements seeking political power. They now control the U.S. Supreme Court and have largely succeeded in stopping Congress from doing much for over 10 years now. Right now they are waiting for someone they can use to become president to realize their ultimate goal which is basically turning America into an Autocratic Theocracy. Once they do that, there won’t be any going back.

 

This is also why I now believe most of the current generation of Christians–Adventist and otherwise–needs to start preparing the next generation for the fractured and divided world they will soon inherit. Jesus is not and cannot return anytime soon. I know many have been saying for most of the last 10 years His coming is imminent but the fact of the matter is the conditions are not in place. Jesus is delaying his return to give as much time as possible for people to be saved. Meanwhile, most of the very elect have largely abandoned evangelism in favor of planning for their own survival. Christians in modernized countries that are largely stable politically want the Second Coming to happen before things get real bad for them is what it is. The problem is that kind of planning is not supported by scripture. In fact, Jesus himself said anyone focused on self-preservation should expect to lose everything.

Every time someone says “Heaven is our home. We’re just passing through” I immediately think to myself “that’s not Biblical”. When I hear someone say “I’m a citizen of the kingdom of heaven before I’m a citizen of this country.” I immediately think to myself “based on what?” Jesus stressed the importance of being a good citizen of the country you live in for a reason: If you feel you don’t have to respect the rule of law here because you don’t like or agree with it, why would God expect you to respect His rule of law in heaven? I’m not talking about those who rightfully and lawfully protest against injustice and unjust laws. I’m talking about a growing number of mostly Christians who feel legally, they’re entitled to special privilages. I won’t digress further but there are many who insist on doing evil in The Lord’s name.

That last part is the heart of the matter Professor Daily was trying to call attention to in his interview with Dr. Hassan. A lot of people are being conditioned to be deceived by trusted voices. Just because something sounds good or right does not mean it is.

 

 

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